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Colossians 1:15-23 if you continue? - 12/2/2008 4:00:48 PM
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stampinlady
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I just read this passage from Today In The Word and I'm wondering what this portion means:
22. But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation - 23. if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.Thanks.
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Deb
"You don't need a New Year's Resolution, you need a Resurection! Dr. Tony Evans
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RE: Colossians 1:15-23 if you continue? - 12/2/2008 4:10:09 PM
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Eutychus
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There are a number of passages where the word "IF" is used when it is understood that it means "WILL".
An example:
If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold. -Ge 4:24
There's no question that Cain would be avenged, God said so.
As with any isolated verse, you have to take it in context and compare it with other scripture on the subject.
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RE: Colossians 1:15-23 if you continue? - 12/2/2008 4:21:46 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
There are a number of passages where the word "IF" is used when it is understood that it means "WILL".
An example:
If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold. -Ge 4:24
There's no question that Cain would be avenged, God said so.
As with any isolated verse, you have to take it in context and compare it with other scripture on the subject.
Flag on the field. Is there a linguist in the house. Can we get a ruling. Is "if" to be understood as "will" in this case? Here is the information from Strongs. How should we proceed?
Strong's Number: 1489 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
ei[ge from (1487) and (1065)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Eige None
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
i'-gheh Conjunction
Definition
if, indeed, inasmuch, as, since
King James Word Usage - Total: 5
if so be that 2, if 2, if yet 1
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Colossians 1:15-23 if you continue? - 12/2/2008 4:22:19 PM
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LCannon
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Verse 19 says, '[By virtue of vss. 13-18]in him[Jesus]all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell...23...continue in your faith[being continually]established[growing personally]and steadfast in[your]faith[and obedience in Christ Jesus]without shifting from the hope promised by the gospel that you previously attested to[and practiced...
It's one of those privilege/responsibility issues that lean more heavily to responsibility.
< Message edited by LCannon -- 12/2/2008 4:29:40 PM >
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"It may be that when the angels go about their task of praising God they play
only Bach. I am sure, however, that when they are together en famille they
play Mozart and then too our dear Lord listens with special pleasure."(Karl Barth)
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RE: Colossians 1:15-23 if you continue? - 12/2/2008 4:28:03 PM
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DrIjames
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well there is a belief among some, and I do not argue the point as long as they love G-d, even Peter said that as long as they believe the fundamental basics of the Gospel, but I was raised in a church that taught that after you was saved then you could basically do what ever you wanted and still get to heaven, many will say that they were not saved in the first place if they do this, but we see in Pauls rightings, many warnings to the CHURCH< to continue and not to turn away. You know, I have seen alot of new christians leave the church and thier salvation becasue of some brother or sister, without G-d's real love in their hearts, offend thse christians, brings in mind the scripture, It would be better to have a millstone tied around your neck and be cast into the sea. No one can pluck us from G-d's love, but we are people with free wills and I have seen many "backslide." I knwo a minister that brought countless thousands to the kingdom of heaven, and then years later, he ran off with another woman and spends most of his time in bars. We see in G-d's word that it is almost impossible for some one who has tasted the power of G-d in ministry to be restored. Hebrews 6:4-5, For it is impossible for those who where once enlightened, (they were saved to be enlightened, this is through the Spirit of G-d) and have tasted of the heavenly gift and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost and have tasted the good Word of G-d and the powers of the world to come, IF they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afreash"" Now it is belsived by most Bible students and ministers of most denominations that this is talking of those that are in the ministry becasue of the word Tasted. We can not take this out of the Word of G-d, even thohg there are those that may like to. G-d said< be ye holy as I am holy" He was not seaking idle words. The great thing, and teaching this I have seen great growth in the church< is that G-d made away for us to do this. let me share something personal here. My wife, left G-d and left me. SHe got caught up in drugs. SHe had my daughter untill she was taken by the state and they had me get custody. ( her mom is doing great and has returned to her God) but at the time my daughter would spend half the year with her, and then the other half with me. SHe was not shcool age yet. Well, when she was with her mom every one would say, SHe looks so much like her mom...., when she was with me, everyone would say, wow she ooks so much like you. of course, if you asked me she looked like me only,LOL. Well one day I was meditating and this poped into my head, and G-d said, Jason Do you think that she just changes when she is with you and then changes when she is with her mom?, I said wel, no I don't . He said, Jason, whenshe is spending time with her mom, she is picking up her moms personallity and even her facial expressions. And when she is with you, she picks up your facial expressions and personallity behaviors. I said WOW. He said now let me tell you this. Whenyou spend time with me, you will pick up my personallity traits and my facial expressons." OH my Lord, even today the tears start to flow when I think of this conversation. Glory be to the Living G-d. Lets spend more time with Him. "He that dwelleth in the secret place of the Most High, shall abide under the shadow of the ALMIGHTY!!
Sorry for the mistakes, I type very fast and sometimes forget to check, Now I mean no disrespect to any in this post. Nor am I trying to start a debate on this subject.
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RE: Colossians 1:15-23 if you continue? - 12/2/2008 4:30:08 PM
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Eutychus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
Flag on the field. Is there a linguist in the house. Can we get a ruling. Is "if" to be understood as "will" in this case?
So are you saying the verse indicates that God ain't keeping His word? I have a time wrapping my mind around that.
But what do I know?
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RE: Colossians 1:15-23 if you continue? - 12/2/2008 4:41:56 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
Flag on the field. Is there a linguist in the house. Can we get a ruling. Is "if" to be understood as "will" in this case?
So are you saying the verse indicates that God ain't keeping His word? I have a time wrapping my mind around that.
But what do I know?
I am only saying that the only thing I know for sure from your previous post is that "if" should have been translated as "will". Since this is beyond my pay grade and I am not sure of your credentials, I was asking for a second opinion.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Colossians 1:15-23 if you continue? - 12/2/2008 6:40:03 PM
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OleFitzHi
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IF you continue in the faith, then you are reconciled. IF you do not, then you are not.
quote:
ORIGINAL: stampinlady
I just read this passage from Today In The Word and I'm wondering what this portion means:
22. But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation - 23. if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.Thanks.
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RE: Colossians 1:15-23 if you continue? - 12/3/2008 12:05:44 PM
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stampinlady
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"continue in the faith?" There are conditions? What if your faith wayverers at times? Don't we all have down times?
_____________________________
Deb
"You don't need a New Year's Resolution, you need a Resurection! Dr. Tony Evans
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RE: Colossians 1:15-23 if you continue? - 12/3/2008 4:08:01 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stampinlady
"continue in the faith?" There are conditions? What if your faith wayverers at times? Don't we all have down times?
I see this as an exhortation and not an treatise on eturnal security. Paul appears to be telling them, "God job so far. Keep going in the way you have been and you will reach your goal." This is a standard teaching tool. Acknowledge what the student has done right before correcting anything they may have gotten a bit wrong.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Colossians 1:15-23 if you continue? - 12/3/2008 5:52:23 PM
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OleFitzHi
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Yes, of course, to all of these. But do we continue in the faith or do we abandon the faith? That is the question.
quote:
ORIGINAL: stampinlady
"continue in the faith?" There are conditions? What if your faith wayverers at times? Don't we all have down times?
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RE: Colossians 1:15-23 if you continue? - 12/3/2008 7:06:29 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OleFitzHi
Yes, of course, to all of these. But do we continue in the faith or do we abandon the faith? That is the question.
quote:
ORIGINAL: stampinlady
"continue in the faith?" There are conditions? What if your faith wayverers at times? Don't we all have down times?
Without some way of resolving the problem of "wavering", we are without hope. Fortunately, Adonai provided the Promise to deal with that so we could move on. The purpose of the sacrifices, in my opinion, is to provide us with a tangable means of ridding ourselves of this baggage.
The purpose of The Sacrifice, is to provide an actual way of ridding ourselves of it. As we acknowledge this and actually leave the baggage behind, we can move on. If we pick the baggage back up again, we can not move on. There are many passages that tell us that we can not move on until we put complete faith in the promise, "the dog returns to it's vomit", "should we sin that grace may abound", etc. One advantage of the tangable sacrifice is that after it is put on the alter and burnt up it is gone and one can not be picked up again, maybe that is why Adonai instituted the burnt offering.
However, if we do not leave the intangable guilt related to that baggage, the tangable is of no effect. This includes the guilt related to not leaving the sacrifice on the alter. The ashes are to be placed outside of the camp and we are not to allow them to remain. If I am not mistaken, there was a ramp that went from the Temple directly to Gehenna so that the ashes did not need to even pass through the city in order for them to be disposed of.
We need to follow Paul's example. (Phil 3:13-14) ". . . one thing I do: forgetting what is behind me and straining forward toward what lies ahead, I keep pursuing the goal in order to win the prize offered by God's upward calling in the Messiah Yeshua."
< Message edited by Bluethread -- 12/3/2008 7:13:13 PM >
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Colossians 1:15-23 if you continue? - 12/4/2008 11:39:51 AM
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stampinlady
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quote:
I see this as an exhortation and not an treatise on eturnal security
This is how I looked at it after I read it a few times.
_____________________________
Deb
"You don't need a New Year's Resolution, you need a Resurection! Dr. Tony Evans
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