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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 10/12/2008 3:01:09 AM
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SonInMe1
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Do you think, Lady_of_Faith, you will face persecution from black people if, as a balck person, you vote for McCain?
quote:
I visited this one website where a group of black college students posted who they were voting for and why, over half said they were voting for BO.
Half of black college students are voting for Obama? That kinda means half are not....I would think that suggests a large landslide victory for McCain if typically liberal, young college students vote for a republican.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 10/12/2008 9:08:24 AM
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zamdad
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I am so sick of racism. I now see racism as a weak argument, a matter of conceding defeat without backing out of the fight. Barney Frank’s recent claims that those criticizing the Community Reinvestment Act are racists are proof of my theory. Barney’s back is against the wall. He has run out of arguments. So, the only thing left to do is scream racism.
It seems that, historically, screaming racism has worked to get others to back off in an argument. But, as America has become more integrated, the racist card has lost its effectiveness. The majority of us know and associate with many people from a plethora of ethnic backgrounds. As a result, many of us have gotten braver and have stood up to individuals who have tried to use racism to short circuit an argument and get their way.
It’s time to move past racism and get to the heart of a given issue. If the Community Reinvestment Act contributed to the ills of the present economy, lets look at it and learn from it. Playing the race card is nothing more than a distraction. Is it any wonder we can’t solve anything?
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 11/11/2008 1:11:09 PM
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rgod
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lady_of_Faith
Continuing from where I left off in "Interesting Comment on BO" thread:
For years, I wondered why most blacks were democrats. After researching the history of the democrats, I was appalled. In the early part of the 20th century, southern democrats inforced the infamous Jim Crow laws. They supported segregation as well as receiving support from the KKK. Republicans actually wanted to abolish segregation and believed in equal rights for all. Believe it or not there is a large group of blacks who are repuplican and supporting McCain. So why do most blacks continue to claim being democratic? I believe it's a matter of 'follow the leader'. My dear, sweet grandmother, bless her heart, can't stand Sarah Palin, yet she had turned the channel when she debated with Biden, so she didnt' even give the woman a chance!
I'm going to base this on my family and what I witness over the years. Growing up, my parents were raised as to not as questions, do as I do. Your opinion doesn't really matter because you're young and don't know any better. My dad, I love him dearly, but he's from the old school. So when he found out I was a Republican (I've been one for quite some time now), he was shocked. He didn't want to hear about the reasons why I chose to become one either. All that matters is a black man is running for president and we need to support him. People really believe that if he takes office, it'll be Heaven on earth, yeah, I remember feeling that way about Clinton, but I grew up. I visited this one website where a group of black college students posted who they were voting for and why, over half said they were voting for BO. Why? because he's black. This is disturbing to say the least. Voting for someone on the merit of skin color....now who's racist?
When I had my son, I promised myself that I wouldn't raise him that way, and to use his mind and not do what others are doing just because. If you're going to be a part of an organization, study the history, make sure it's the right one for you. Do you really support the issues they stand for. Don't do it because your parents, grandparents say it's what you have to do.
I have nothing against BO. I don't really care for JM that much, but I do agree with some of his principles moreso than BO, but a president has to be selected.
Sadly, I can't talk to anyone in my family about my views, but that's ok.
Whew, I had to get that off my chest. Thanks for reading.
Hi Lady_of_Faith. I think it is great that you are teaching your son to think for himself. That is really important, especially these days. I think that the reason that a lot of black people vote democrat today despite the history of the democratic party is because the democrat and republican parties switched ideologies during the 1950's and 60s. Most blacks were republican before then because the republican party was the party of Lincoln and had a strong anti-slavery stance. (Remember, most southern whites in the early part of the 19th century were democrat). The civil rights movement, the republican's "Southern Strategy" and a lot of other things led to and were the result of the ideological switch. Coupled with the fact that democrats tend to gear their message towards people who are middle class or poor (or at least that is their rhetoric) and that census figures indicate that blacks as a whole make less than whites (even if the education levels are the same), are more likely to go to public schools, etc. - it follows that many black people will vote for a democrat over a republican because of issues associated with economic status.
I am not republican or even particularly conservative, but tend to be more moderate and in a few cases, somewhat liberal. I voted for Obama, not because he was black, but because I was concerned about the direction of the country and a number of our domestic and international policies. Most of the other black and white people that I spoke to who voted for Obama thought this way too. I felt peaceful when I prayed about who I should vote. I believe I made the right choice. I ran into some people who voted for him because he was black, but I also ran into whites who voted for McCain just because he was white. (Yeah, people can sometimes be up front about how they feel, believe it or not). I voted for republicans too for some of the other offices on the ballot. When I mention that I split the ticket or that I voted for a republican in a particular office - sometimes black people have given me funny looks. I don't get persecuted or anything, but people are usually curious. One of my best friends is black and is a conservative republican. She tends to vote republican because of their stance on israel and the position on abortion. We talk about issues often and have influenced one another. I also know quite a few black people who vote republican primarily. Most of the people that I know who are black and republican are christian entrepreneurs who like republican policies for small and mid-sized businesses. I have another friend who is republican - she voted for McCain because of other issues (although she does own her own practice as well). I think that they've gotten questions, but, I don't really think it is that different from the looks or comments that many white evangelicals might get if they mention that they vote democrat. I've spoken with more than one white christian democrat who have told me that people have asked them why they are not voting republican. They've implied to them (and also to me) that unless you are a republican, you cannot possibly be a christian. I've heard disturbing rhetoric from both sides from every day people: "You are black, you should vote democrat." or "You are white, you should vote republican, this is OUR country and we don't want THEM to take over." I've heard all sorts of things on both sides. Actually, it is amazing that I've been able to hear so much about how people really feel.
In reading your post, I wonder if a lot of what you are experiencing as well, is about perception. If you just look at the imagery alone - not even listening to issues - you generally don't see people of color, people of different faiths, or even white people who aren't mainstream (although I think McCain did go a republican biker rally - didn't he?) at republican rallies, conferences, among elected officials. One could draw the conclusion, based on imagery alone, that their message is only for one group of people only, not for everyone. Again - I'm not saying that is how it is - maybe there is more diversity in the republican party than what I've seen. Those images are quite powerful and for some people, might influence the way that they hear the issues when they are presented. I remember about 8 or 10 years ago, the GOP seemed to be trying to speak more to other groups of people. It didn't appear this way during the campaign. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) I wonder if they'll revisit some of that - or at least make it more apparent - as they regroup after this last election.
< Message edited by rgod -- 11/11/2008 1:19:35 PM >
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 11/15/2008 10:55:30 AM
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humbleinspirit
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I want to point out that I face discrimination when I go into tough neighborhoods sometimes. Because of my skin color I receive rude comments among other things. A couple of weeks ago I had jury duty in a tough part of the city. I asked the bus driver to let me off at the courthouse but he said nothing too me, and made no announcement either.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 11/15/2008 1:35:51 PM
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rgod
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quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
I want to point out that I face discrimination when I go into tough neighborhoods sometimes. Because of my skin color I receive rude comments among other things. A couple of weeks ago I had jury duty in a tough part of the city. I asked the bus driver to let me off at the courthouse but he said nothing too me, and made no announcement either.
Humbleinspirit - I'm not surprised at this. I work in a multicultural place and there are a couple of minority co-workers who are racist. They make comments and it hurts me so much that I want to cry sometimes, particularly because we are Christian. You expect those things from the world, but not from your brothers and sisters in Christ. I try very hard to stand up for everyone. I've been wanting to really preach on it - to talk to people about it. We are not supposed to judge each other from a human point of view, but from God's point of view. God sees us as spirits and we need to see each other that way. There is one guy (who is African-American) in particular that I've been wanting to confront about it because I think he'll listen to what I have to say. I might have an opening to do that soon. As Christians, we must be unified - and I've got to not only talk the talk, but also walk the walk - even if he might get upset with me about it.
I have heard stories like yours before. I think though, that the impact can be a bit different, depending on how much discrimination you face. Imagine Humbleinspirit, if the way that you were treated by the bus driver, or by the people in the tough part of the city was the norm. Imagine that it isn't limited to the bus, but also occurs when you go to work, to the store, or the gym. This is what a lot of minorities have to face every day. Now imagine growing up in that - and how incredibly difficult it would be to maintain an accurate sense of self when you are constantly treated as if there is something wrong with you. Now add overt racism to that. For example, a couple of weeks ago, I was speaking with the former dean of my department and he told me that he told a friend that he was going to "vote for the n*****" (referring to Barak Obama). Or, a week or two ago, neighbors had a party - there were no black people around and I could hear them through my window. Lots of language in general - but also lots of use of n***** as well. In addition to this, a girl was hit, there was a fight - and to be honest, I was afraid of what might have happened (I'm a physically small person and I was home alone). Praise God I was ok, and these are extreme examples - I don't face this all of the time, but there are lots of things that I deal with each day - whether it is someone not speaking to me (but speaking to everyone else around me), being overlooked for promotions when my peers - who have the same qualifications or even less than I do - get promoted - and a lot more. Of course, not everything is related to race. But, I think this is part of the reason that many Black people really celebrated the historic moment of Obama being elected - if you face this type of discrimination a lot - you can begin to think that doors are not open for you. When you see someone who has been able to go through those doors, it gives you a sense of hope and a renewed faith in your country. It is also quite significant that Obama was voted in by a broad cross section of people - blacks, whites, hispanic, asian.
For myself, I have the Lord and know that he is in control - and God himself has opened up doors for me in so many ways. I've had people of all colors help me as well. There are lots of good people in the world too - Christian and not. I try to do what I can for things to be fair - but it is the racism within the Christian community that bothers me the most. To be honest, I've read things on this board that have made my heart heavy. I've had people twist my words so that I would appear to be racist. IRL, I've seen a lot of racism in churches - black, white, and hispanic (I haven't been to many churches with a sizeable asian population, so I can't comment there). I feel like ... as Christians we should try to understand and love one another ... but instead, I often feel like I see more racism in the church than outside of it. I think there is some truth to that old poem "I would like to buy three dollars worth of God, please; I would like to find a love that's pocket‑sized. Not enough to make me love a black man. Not enough to change my heart; ..." We can subsitute black man for any group of people (white person, immigrant). But on the other hand, I've met so many Christians who were so loving and kind - not racist at all. I know that for myself, when I pray about it, the Lord has prompted me to look inwardly first. I thank God that I had a good role model in my father, who is not the least bit racist. (I've never heard him say anything bad about any group - and he was around during Jim Crow). Mostly, I pray for the church concerning this issue. It is an evil that we are comfortable with - we don't confront it and I think it is to our detriment.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 11/15/2008 1:45:35 PM
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humbleinspirit
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Hi Rgod and thank you for posting! You have a lot of insights on this and I am happy to read them! 
Thats very sad that you have seen racism in the Christian community. I have noticed that African American Christians in my area go out of their way to make me feel welcome and fight against what culture says.
My city has had lots of racism in the past, but I want to be one to do something about changing that, if at all possible. I find that the whole subject is a sensitive one and I know that I must be careful how others perceive me as well.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 11/16/2008 9:50:12 AM
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SonInMe1
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I don't think there is a kind of human not represented in my church. Its one thing I like about it and all being together under the same pastor unites us in a way that is unique I think.
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 11/16/2008 2:54:11 PM
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kencool99
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you cannot change the past. all you can do is learn from it. JESUS never mentioned skin color in anything.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 11/16/2008 4:03:00 PM
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tomhillbilly
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I feel like i gotta post a disclaimer regarding my chatnick to be safe on this thread.
Would it be considered racist for someone to choose,as much as possible, to only associate with people of their own color?
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 11/16/2008 5:09:28 PM
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solo_soprano22
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Tom, I think it depends on your motive/reason.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 11/16/2008 6:00:20 PM
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solo_soprano22
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Uuuuuuum, I guess I've never really been attracted to black guys, although I'm a black female... I'm mixed (not 50/50), but people will look at me and either call me black or mixed with some non-Caucasian race (I'm black, white, american indian). I guess I've never really felt the "you need to date/marry within your race" kind of thing.... Really, I'm not sure why the races are so separated that way, BUT I think some of it is a cultural thing. My current novio es de Perú (boyfriend is from Peru)... but I just have never been into black men romantically. I'm just not attracted. I have black male friends.... they're good people; just not attracted. I dunno... I know black people who'd really never date anyone outside of their race, but that's pretty much all I date and am attracted to. <shrugs> Perhaps they can identify with the culture whereas I can't. It's like most black people I know want to condemn another black person for liking/being attracted to what they attracted to if it's not another black person... But I actually think it's racist to say that all the races need to stay with their own, if that makes sense.
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For God, For Learning, Forever.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 11/16/2008 6:22:53 PM
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Roberta_
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Hi Solo- I understand what you are saying and I agree.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 11/17/2008 12:21:54 AM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
But I actually think it's racist to say that all the races need to stay with their own, if that makes sense.
I quite agree. One of my best friends in currently in a fairly serious inter-racial relationship, and it's great. Unfortunately, one side of the family isn't super thrilled about it. I don't think they'll cause enough trouble to put a major stumbling block in their path, but it's still frustrating. If a man and a woman love each other, why on earth should their culture/skin color get in the way?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 11/17/2008 3:29:13 AM
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rgod
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22
Uuuuuuum, I guess I've never really been attracted to black guys, although I'm a black female... I'm mixed (not 50/50), but people will look at me and either call me black or mixed with some non-Caucasian race (I'm black, white, american indian). I guess I've never really felt the "you need to date/marry within your race" kind of thing.... Really, I'm not sure why the races are so separated that way, BUT I think some of it is a cultural thing. My current novio es de Perú (boyfriend is from Peru)... but I just have never been into black men romantically. I'm just not attracted. I have black male friends.... they're good people; just not attracted. I dunno... I know black people who'd really never date anyone outside of their race, but that's pretty much all I date and am attracted to. <shrugs> Perhaps they can identify with the culture whereas I can't. It's like most black people I know want to condemn another black person for liking/being attracted to what they attracted to if it's not another black person... But I actually think it's racist to say that all the races need to stay with their own, if that makes sense.
Hi Solo - I wonder if you've seen changes in this over the years? When I was younger, black women in particular dating non-black men was frowned upon so lots of black women didn't ever date "outside of the race." I remember when people found out that Whoopi Goldberg had a white boyfriend/husband - back in the 80s. Whew! Lots and lots of people talked about that negatively - more than would have talked about a black man and a white woman at that time. (Although if a black man dated white women exclusively, people talked about that negatively too - remember Jungle Fever by Spike Lee back in the early 90s?) But, I've noticed over the years more and more black women are dating other people and people seem to be much more comfortable with it. In my own experience, I also notice that white and hispanic men are a lot more bold in pursuing black women than they were, say, 15 years ago; sometimes more bold than black men (but not always). For a lot of years black women in general didn't date other men - and I think a lot of this is because many didn't think that other men would be interested in them. I think integration changed a lot of this - people just started to get to know each other better. I also think, in a very strange way, that hip hop and r & b - as raunchy and as degrading as a lot of it can be - as well as music videos in general - caused a lot of people to look at black women differently. This is not to compliment the crude "tribute" songs like "Baby's Got Back." But, the popularity of this type music introduced the idea to a much wider audience that a different body shape can be considered desireable, even though it wasn't always in the most godly way. This, along with the marketing of more and more black actresses/entertainers as being attractive and beautiful (Tyra Banks, Halle Berry, Janet Jackson, etc.) have changed the ways in which people think. Media images are very powerful.
In terms of the reactions you get, I think that there are some (though definitely not all) black men who don't like the fact that now there is competition. Of course a lot of black guys are also cool with it too and have long felt that - as I've heard a popular entertainer say - that black women should "exercise their options more." Some black women still have a problem with it. But way less than before. Personally, I think it is a good thing. I think for a long time, many black women were alone because they kept saying "there are no men" because they didn't believe that a man of a different race would be interested in them for a real relationship. But in actuality, there were quite a few men of all races out there who were interested. The way I see it, you like who you like. You love who you love. You might be more attracted to a certain skin color or body type - and I don't think that's a problem. But, really, all of these things are man-made divisions anyway - if you go outside of the country, because of the way you look Solo, you might be classified differently. Here in the U.S. so much is about race, race, race. Even the fact that we have a seperate category - "interracial relationship" speaks to that fact. It is something that Americans are immersed in from cradle to grave. If you go abroad for a while and cut all contact with American culture (which is very very very hard to do since our culture is all over the globe), then look at the news and shows that come from the U.S. - you really see it quite clearly and with a much more objective eye. And we aren't alone in this - in other countries, there is often this point or some other thing that people fixate on (might be ethnicity or where you live). All of it is man-made - we take the differences that God ordained and make it into something bad. God looks at us a spirits and we should look at each other that way. Nothing wrong with also appreciating our backgrounds and cultures too! But, to take something that God has made and has called good and to say that it is not -- well, that is sin. But thank God that here, things have and continue to change - at least on a societal level.
You mentioned culture. I think that the root of some of this feeling is passed down through generations. Remember, 60 years ago, if a black man was caught looking at a white woman on the street he could be killed. It was against the law for black and whites to marry in many places. It seems like a long time ago, but not so long ago if you think about culturally, what kinds of lessons parents taught their kids, and particularly their daughters, to keep them safe - to keep them alive. This isn't to make any sort of excuse, but an attempt to explain why you might be getting some of the reactions that you get. Even if this isn't happening now, the lessons are still passed down from generation to generation.
In any event, I'm glad that you've met your novio peruano, and I pray that you both enjoy getting to know one another. I'm glad that you've found someone that you like - that can sometimes be difficult. I also didn't mean to write for so long ... but wanted to put my thoughts down before I forgot them.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 11/17/2008 10:35:16 AM
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tomhillbilly
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solo soprano im curious what your term AA's meant from an earlier post
I would like to share the definition of racism i have come to understand. Racism is thinking or believing that a particular race is inherantly superior to another, or possibly all others.
also i would like to draw a differnce between the definition of racism and when racism becomes 'real' or 'active' and not just an idea or belief
racism by definition i would describe as 'passive' racism. Now, if and when it becomes real is another matter even if they are linked to varying degrees. im white by the way and here is an example if the difference i wish to draw
In my years of cutting grass i worked for both white and black. Lets assume for a moment i believe "white people are the best". I would be a racist(passive). However, if this didnt effect or show favoritism/unfavoritism in regard to my business practices, then i would not have shown or practiced racism(active).
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 11/17/2008 10:42:55 AM
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Roberta_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tomhillbilly
solo soprano im curious what your term AA's meant from an earlier post
I'm not solo, but I'm 99.999999% sure that AA means African American.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 11/17/2008 10:53:34 AM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1886
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quote:
I'm not solo, but I'm 99.999999% sure that AA means African American.
I agree. Though I would like to point out that, if memory serves, one of the Moderators said awhile back in this thread (or another thread on relatively the same subject) that because of AA's association with Alcoholics Anonymous, we should refrain from using that abbreviation.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 11/17/2008 10:54:49 AM
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lexie
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quote:
It's like most black people I know want to condemn another black person for liking/being attracted to what they attracted to if it's not another black person... But I actually think it's racist to say that all the races need to stay with their own, if that makes sense.
Boy did my husband and I hear that from his family members. I remember our young niece asking us how we can get married when he is black and I am white. If that's not teaching your child racism, I don't know what is.
I can remember my husband being nervous to tell certain people back when we started dating. He knew he would face a whole lot of talk from his family and others he knew. It wasn't that he would be hurt by it, he just didn't want to have to listen to others spout nonsense.
Solo, I always think of mixed race people when I hear the argument that people should stick within their own race. I wouldn't tell my daughter to only date mixed men. Should we be silly about it and say that my husband should only have dated women who are 5/8 black, 2/8 Arawak, and 1/8 white?
I remember a friend in high school, who took it further and believed you should date only within your culture (so she would only date French guys). I said, "works for you but I'm not sure where I'm going to find a half Dutch half Canadian guy I like."
However, I do find in my own life that the people who criticise interracial relationships, or say that people should stick to their own race are people who are dissatisfied with their own dating lives. (I can't say that for everyone, but the majority of people we get the grief from, this seems to be the case.)
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 11/17/2008 10:55:00 AM
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Roberta_
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From: East Bay Area
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MrFribbles- I don't remember anything about that, but my memory ain't what it used to be.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 11/17/2008 12:54:53 PM
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solo_soprano22
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22
People call me racist because I'm not romantically attracted (or I guess visually/culturally attracted) to my own race.  I don't have anything against other AA's though... just not my cup of tea in relationships.
I really think you have hit on a major problem of the whole 'Rzcial" thingy.
If a caucasian held those same feelings; they would definately be called racist.
People group together for a number of reasons; education, hobbies, age, customs, etc, but when they group because of race; all of a sudden grouping is wrong.
When I run across a black person and invite them to come to Church, more often than not they say that they had rather attend a black Chruch. That attitude is full accepted as the norm.
But if a white person says they had rather attend a white Church than a black Church; walla we have racism.
As long as this double standard is prevelant in our society there will always be the preception of racism; either real or imagined.
Thansk
RC
I see all these posts I want to reply to, but I'll bite.
I know a lot of black people that are accustomed to what they call "black" churches. It really doesn't necessarily mean that everyone has to be black, but it's the way the church is that makes it "black." Usually the "black" churches have certain kinds of preaching..yelling..stomping of feet..music/organ while the sermon's being preached, etc. It's the culture of the church matters to a lot of black people I know...and I think if they could find a "white church" that does the same things, it wouldn't matter. Around here, I don't know of any churches that are a majority white but have a "black church culture." Then, I know some black people just aren't comfortable being the only black person that is somewhere. But I think more of it is just culture.
I think many times it appears as if people group up by race, but sometimes it's not so. For example, I have friends who are, what other black people would call "ghetto." They use the word for a certain kind of culture or "blackness." Now... I happen to not be "ghetto." I don't hang around with that culture of black people much; it doesn't appeal to me. What I do notice is that most people in that culture that I see around me are black, BUT if there's a white person who behaves/talks similarly to them, they WILL befriend that person based on how they act and such...not on race.
I see grouping based more on cultural differences, but it just so happens that the differences I see that are separating people are usually tied to a race around here. Most blacks around have a certain culture that they identify with...same for whites. I'm sure Latinos, etc. have another culture. I usually end up with white people, not because I actively seek them out, b | | |
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